If I was underwhelmed by the lack of Comments on Monday morning, I am now overwhelmed.
There are so many well thought out comments that it is really impossible to single one or two for further discussion. In truth the comments are better than the actual blog, and illustrate the most personal experiences and emotions. And, it is ok for men to show emotion. Emotions make our life richer. Sharing heart felt emotions with a spouse creates a 'we' relationship.
Reading through the comments there is one commonality. Male submission in a female led marriage brings couples closer together. It generates a higher level of intimacy, as well as more passion in the marriage. And, I am not talking about kink. I am talking about genuine intimacy between a woman and her man. And, when I say man I mean man. The submissive man, the man who finds the courage to bend his knee to his wife is no less a man. He is in my opinion the diamond in the rough that simply needs the firm hand of a loving wife to make him all he can be.
One of the emails I received was from a young gentlemen who took the pledge. He told me that their marriage had been struggling. It was missing something, but they didn't know what. Much of the intimacy this couple shared in the first years of their relationship seemed to be missing. A such, when they decided on the pledge there was no giggling or laughter. In a way they viewed it as a prescription for the health of their relationship. This young gentlemen found the courage to ask his wife's permission to kneel as he was reciting the pledge. She agreed. He tells me that kneeling before his wife, taking the pledge was one of the most liberating experiences of his life.
As a woman it is difficult for me to understand how a man feels when he surrenders him self to a wife. For that I need John's help as well as all of the comments you have given me. But, it is my understanding that this young man's feeling of liberation is rather common. Liberation from what I would ask. The answer in a very general way is liberation from the restraints of being a man. Liberation to show feelings, to show vulnerability. to show who you really are under the mask of masculinity that society imposes.
As women we simply do not understand the male need for submission. It doesn't make sense, and we were not raised to be leaders. In fact we were raised to be follows. But, we were also raised with the idea that we should please our men. But, when it comes to leading our men there is kind of a glass wall. Yes, we can give then sex, and we can sometimes do the special things they like because these are the things that are expected of us. Yet, when it comes to proving the discipline they need we can not break though that glass wall.
Love you all for all for reading. Love you even more for sharing. You are my little sweethearts, and this blog is to help make your life better.
Kathy
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30 comments:
Kathy,
Thank you for your comments and counsel. I have thought of responses many times, written them down a fewer number and clicked on "publish" far less. I have deleted large portions of my responses that I have posted; even on this one.
Though my wife leads most areas of our relationship, she is not willing to consider or discuss any concept of her being dominant. I am not able to share any thoughts on this topic with her.
Though I would love to participate in conversations with you and others on this blog, doing so would feel like a betrayal of the relationship my wife and I have. Because of this, I am always listening for your voice but can rarely respond. There may be others that are in the same situation
Someday, I hope to hear the words from you that I can apply to my relationship with my wife that will allow us to both enjoy a closer relationship in the area of my submission. Until then I will need to stay out in the hallway and listen to the sounds of others at the party.
WLhusband
Kathy,
Thanks for shining an extra special light on my book. It was great to hear from your commenters that some connected with it, and even that some did not. There is no one-size-fits-all relationship type, FLR or not.
Its been a treat to meet your commenters and answer questions where I could, and as always, learn a thing or two.
Key
Hi Kathy. One of the big positive changes for my Owner wife is that I’ve seen her really believe in the leadership of women in society. As it becomes more and more a real thing she has gained so much confidence. We have a woman prime minister now and both of us believe it is the shape of things to come. My wife now expects my submission and believes in it now.
We trip and stumble but it’s now our life. I still hate when she says please but now the tone is changing. The number of times I hear I don’t think Mistress Kathy would like you doing or saying that is a real telltale. I’ve cone to know my wife’s feet very intimately because of you. And it’s wonderful. Thanks from us. WLM NZ. D&S
Hello Mrs. Kathy
I am one of those that read your blog, but never comment. Why? It is because as a single guy, I feel like I practically don’t have much to offer.
One thing that did resonate with me was the feeling of liberation that young man felt as he knelt before his wife taking the pledge. I completely understand why. It is difficult to be someone you’re not, especially as a submissive man. In my experience, being submissive to women will get you ostracized by men and is a major turn off to women so I do my best to hide that part of me. It’s not fun.
What I want more than anything is to be able to have a woman that loves and accepts me the way I am. To love her and care for her in the ways that are talked about in flr and not be judged would be awesome. No more pretending to be someone you’re not. No more feeling ashamed. Truly liberating!
That’s just my two cents. Thank you for continually updating this blog, as it is insightful for someone like me.
Jim
Hi Kathy,
In one of the previous posts, you said the following was important to discuss, but so far I don’t think anyone really has: “And, another point that Key makes deserves real discussion. Tell me- do you think women are natural leaders? Is female judgment superior to males? Is it necessary for a wife's judgment to be superior to her husband for her to lead the relationship.”
I don’t know that, when averaged out, women are any more “natural” leaders than men. I think that it may be natural for them to lead because of some of the factors Key mentions, like being biologically made to nurture children, etc. Is female judgment superior to males? Hard to say on average. You can look at the statistics on men’s death rates from self-destructive behavior, we certainly have some problems. Though, as women come into the workplace more, they are catching up with on many of those dysfunctions. Now, on a personal level, is my wife’s judgment superior to mine? No. And, I think she would say the same. There are areas where she is stronger and others were I am. I also tend to be more analytical, and I’m also older and have just seen more at this stage. I think leadership is something that partners of either gender can be gifted at or really suck at. I’ve worked for female leaders who were smart as hell and wonderful leaders, and I’ve worked for some who had terrible judgment and were just as political and divisive as any male manager ever has been.
Yet, even though I do not think my wife’s judgment is naturally superior, we are trying this FLR experiment more and more. Why? Because I get really tired of leading, and she needs to take on more leadership in order to develop and grow. So, I give up control, and she assumes more of it.
I’m about 50% through Key’s book. There are things I like about it, including the emphasis on “surrender” and submission being real only when it is to something you disagree with. I do think it is written for those couples in which the female is “naturally” dominant. In most of the stories from real couples, it is the female who initiates the FLR or D/s relationship. But, is that consistent with realitty? I think in most cases it is the man who wants to be dominated and he asks his wife to join him in that.
Kathy:
This is a very nice blog entry. I can tell it is sincere and from the heart and shows that you understand a great deal about submissive fellows like us. You have been a very generous Woman, sharing so much of your story with us. And it has helped me so very much, and allowed that mostly hidden submissive part of me to find the light of day now and then, and to share a little bit with someone who can understand the need and desire.
I have continued to read on in Key’s book and I hope you don’t mind a few more comments.
Because I am not in a Femdom or Female Led relationship it is difficult for me to fully understand and appreciate the amount of detail Key describes when it comes to the actual roles of the man and Woman. Although I believe that a truly submissive man intuitively knows how to react, treat, serve and obey his wife. But for a newbie the information is priceless.
I do find much substance in what I read….not only applying to a Femdom Relationship, but to any marriage or relationship between a husband and wife; or man and Woman.
Of course people who truly love one another should respect each other completely; especially for who they are regardless of the role in the relationship. And yes, a loving and attentive husband should be proactive in serving his spouse, not reactive; and he should do things for his Woman with little or no thought about receiving anything in return. Serving her, pleasing her, are simply good lessons for any man to follow…and of course vice versa…a Woman for her man….in any type of long term relationship.
I am somewhat ashamed to admit that it took many years for me to learn these lessons. Initially my desire for Female Domination was all sexual and “kink” related…..something that was unappealing to my spouse….so early in our marriage when I gave her pleasure, or took over household duties for a weekend, etc.; in the back of my mind I was hoping that she would reciprocate by willing agreeing to dominate me: more or less a tit for a tat. I tried hard not to allow myself to feel this way, but I could not always shake the sentiment. At times I even became resentful that my Wife wouldn’t participate.
It was only a few years ago….maybe 8 or 9….when I was in a forum talking with real folks in the life style and one of the Women asked me to stop and think long and hard about exactly what Female Domination, or Female Led Relationships really meant……light bulb time for me!!!!!! This life style means that the man submits his own desires to the will and desires of his female partner….whatever that means; including having zero D/s in the relationship. Which is where I am today!!
I was surprised how simple this was…and how dense I had been for years. After rolling this simple concept around in my head for a week or so, I found great relief, satisfaction, fulfillment, and decided to simply accept my wife’s desires and continue our marriage without any semblance of Female Authority…and further that I would try to bury my ego, and always put my wife first….do small things for her….show her my love not only through words but actions that demonstrated how much I admired and loved her.
Best decision of my life. I am so much happier, humbler, and I like myself so much more. After a year or two I came to realize that I am truly a submissive man when it comes to Women, and most of my thoughts of kink went out the window.
Bottom line I believe that in so many ways Key is right on the money in much of what he offers. I live a life with many of the elements that are written about; and while not as fulfilling I am sure as you and John, Kathy, it has made for a blessed life.
Steve
Real men are not submissive.
To the anonymous poster who said real men are not submissive.
Tell that to any man who ever served in the military. You are trained to be submissive to your commanders and serve the directions of higher ranking people.
The whole concept of military service (neat theres that word 'serve') is that. Almost all men com be trained to be subordinate and submissive.
'Yet, when it comes to proving the discipline they need we can not break though that glass wall.'
Yet again one of your posts drifts back to thoughts of discipline Kathy. I wonder whether we should keep a record of how often you mention it just in passing :-)
I said it last year, in response to a previous post that where you alluded to discipline, and I will say it again now. You give the distinct impression that somewhere in your conscious or sub-conscious mind thoughts of discipline are occupying you more and more. As you often mention it with regards to Becky, and occasionally refer back to that time when you disciplined a man in New Orleans and - your words - stated that you enjoyed it too much, I get the distinct impression that you are seeing how Becky incoporates discipline within her FLR and are wondering whether you should make more use of it in yours.
You laughed it off last year when I raised this point. But time and time again you keep coming back to questions of discipline and its importance, or not, in a FLR.
If you enjoy something then what a shame if you do not pursue what you enjoy fully?
Have a lovely Easter.
:-)
I agree with Key on the military chain-of-command metaphor. Colonels take orders from generals, but they also boss around captains, lieutenants and all the enlisted men. Learning to lead and learning to follow are both hard and both take effort and will. Not submitting within your chain of command makes you defective at half your role. And, I say that knowing that I have real insubordination problems and always have. It's one reason an FLR is helpful to me. Not because I am naturally submissive, but because I am not.
Also, for the record, while my wife and I are in an FLR and in that context I guess I am becoming "submissive", I grew up in an area of the country where armed fights were pretty common. I put myself through college working construction jobs and bouncing. I've taken judo and Brazilian Jujitsu. I bench 200 lbs. and squat over 300. In a bar fight between me and mister "Real men are not submissive," I'd bet on me.
Thank all of you for sharing.
For the most part I don't see the need to add anything to what any of you are saying. In a very real sense each of you know more about what it means to me a submissive man than I do. Yet, I also feel that most of you need the presence of a female to lead the conversation. Without female input the conversation often has a way of floundering.
In a sense I have always felt that my judgment on matters of home and family has been better than Johns. With regard to technical matters John's judgment is far superior to mine. Also, in matters of public policy he has a broader background. Some of the differences may be natural. Most of the differences are the result of background and education, and to a large extend our interest are different.
We talk about the importance of communicating with a spouse. We do have daily sessions where I encourage John's input. Yet, I also have a tendency to talk things over with either Becky or one of my girlfriends. Over the last few years Becky has become more of a sounding board than John. For the most part her prospective on life is similar to mine. If there is such a thing as an alternate mistress it is Becky. On the few times I have put John under her charge she has handled him with the confidence of a woman who understands what it mean to run a home.
Key made the comment that submissiveness in men comes in various degrees. I agree with this. It is one thing for a slightly submissive or even moderately submissive man to be happy in a vanilla relationship. For the highly submissive man a vanilla relationship will only give him a life of frustration. At some point he will break under the strain of pretending he is something he is not. What I would like to know is how many marriages end in divorce because of the wife's failure to lead her man.
You all know that my marriage to John came close to ending when I learned he had a serious relationship with another woman. He wanted me to talk with Tara. He wanted me to know that the relationship was non sexual. What he didn't understand was that in mind a relationship with another woman was more offense able than a one night stand on one of his business trips.
Love, Kathy
A man should not be submissive to a woman it is completely unnatural
Because of the close ties and similar thoughts you have with your daughter, John is happy to take her commands when you are not present. He knows you both have his interest in mind. My question, if you will is, how do David and John relate? In a situation with the four of you, do they both serve? Clean up duties?
Thank you,
richard s.
I don’t think so dan.
Is it not natural? Indeed? Then why are the closest relatives to us, monkeys Bonobo matriarchy?
Dear Kathy,
You asked about trying to understand how a man feels when he surrenders to a woman...
Surrendering to a woman is like hypnosis. When you submit and obey her, your mind relaxes. A sense of extreme vulnerability is created where you are completely aware that she could hurt you, yet choose not to. Instead, she chooses to mold you into a better man that will better serve society and her.
When you submit to her, her voice and her will becomes your thoughts, relaxing you even further. It is hard to describe how extremely wonderful this feeling is...to have your mind being controlled utterly by a woman who loves you.
It feels extremely erotic and arousing to become a woman's puppet, to be so completely under her control.
Life is a constant struggle, with society telling you that a man is the dominant partner and woman is the submissive partner. I have tried to fight this submissive feeling for a very long time and it always returns, stronger than ever, whispering in my head and telling me that I must submit to the female gender.
If I have the choice of being the richest man in the world or to surrender to a woman who loves and cares for me, I will choose the latter without any hesitation. That is how powerful the urge of submission is to me.
I can only dream of the day when I am allowed to kneel in command position at the feet of my wife as I receive her instructions. How good it would feel when I utter the beautiful words, "Yes dear,I must obey," at her every order.
I truly believe that I was born into this world to worship, protect, submit and obey the female gender.
Ahhhh, if only I could live a life like David.
Hi Kathy,
You offered the idea of a glass wall. I believe the glass wall is two sided. It's both difficult for the woman in the marriage to break societal norms and lead (and when necessary discipline) just as much as it's difficult for men to open their hearts to their wives and express their inner thoughts, hurts, longings, desires.
I know I grew up being taught "boys don't cry" and "just do what you're told". What I never asked my father is 'why. I love my parents but it was the teaching of those kinds of behaviors that inhibited my ability to open up and share. I was taught to grin and bear it and although developing grit is a good thing, I think there might have been a better way. Why can't men have both qualities - grit and determination as well as openness and honesty and in touch with their inner self?
Love your posts
For I'm Hers
Of course baby you are correct.
Love you,
Kathy
Kathy. Why do you believe women should lead men?
Men should be men.
We'll never know, will we Zeke? May I call you Zeke? You kind of seem like a Zeke. May I observe, Zeke, that it is interesting that you say "Real men are not submissive," but something led you to a blog devote to male submission and female dominance. A typo in your search term perhaps? Or, am I perhaps erring in assuming you are a man? I guess based on nothing but the content of your comments, you could be a woman who thinks male submission is unnatural.
To Kathy. Do you think it is easier for a woman to dominate a man if she is older than him?
Kathy What is your view on chastity devices.
Thank you so very much for your continued blog, I have only ever commented on your blog once before because I rarely feel I have much to contribute, however I wanted to come out of the shadows to thank you for your wonderful blog which has helped me enormously in my quest for a FLR with my beautiful wife.
Thank you
Eddie
Why is a submissive man less than a man? A submissive man could go to the gym, learn up martial arts to protect his wife. A submissive man could be a man who dominates all other "man" in the work environment or in the world.
A submissive man can be ten times stronger than his wife, but at the snap of his wife's finger, he will kneel down to kiss her feet, to lay down his life to protect her, to ensure that her will is being carried out.
A submissive man becomes a role model to his son on how woman should be treated, reducing the chances of his son becoming a sex offender.
A submissive man is a family man, putting the interest of the family above himself.
No, a submissive man is not a man. He is the perfect man.
A perfect man is a man whose mind is under the complete control of his wife. He lives only to serve and obey his woman.
Sadly only one type of comment is acceptable here. To society in general, until many more women come out or seek openly submissive men and want to be dominant there will be no acceptance.
There are several different Anonymous posters posting here - which makes it very difficult to follow who is who.
Is it THAT difficult to just give yourself an online name and use that each them you post so that we can differentiate the posters?
Good comment, thank you.
Kathy why don’t you respond to most comments
An answer to Mr. Smith,
"A blog is a frequently updated online personal journal or diary. It is a place to express yourself to the world. A place to share your thoughts and your passions"
richard s.
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